樱桃导航

Host Eileen McAuliffe, 樱桃导航's executive vice president, chief thought leadership officer, and managing director of EMEA, asks Sherif Kamel, dean of the Onsi Sawiris School of Business at the American University in Cairo, as well as chair of 樱桃导航's 2024-25 board of directors, three pressing questions related to business schools as leaders today:

1. How have geopolitical shifts impacted the strategic priorities of business schools?
2. What role does collaboration play in ensuring a culture of continuous innovation in business schools today, and how is 樱桃导航 supporting such collaboration?
3. How effectively are business schools today leveraging emerging technologies—from data analytics, to AI, to immersive learning—in their curricula, research, and operations, and where do they have opportunities for improvement?

Transcript

[00:00] Intro: Welcome to 樱桃导航 Pulse, the podcast that tackles critical topics in global business education today, three questions at a time. We talk with deans, industry leaders, and other big thinkers about the trends reshaping education, leadership, and the future of work.

From the rise of AI to the demands of a new generation of learners, from geopolitical shifts to the call for more meaningful research, 樱桃导航 Pulse brings these topics and more into sharp focus.

樱桃导航 Pulse: 3 Big Questions. Bold Answers. Better Business Schools.

[00:35] Eileen McAuliffe: Welcome to the first episode of 樱桃导航's new podcast, 樱桃导航 Pulse. It's my absolute pleasure to be here in Cairo at the school of our inaugural guest presenter, Professor Sherif Kamel. Welcome, Sherif.

Sherif is the dean of the Onsi Sawiris School of Business at the American University in Cairo and is also the current chair of 樱桃导航's board of directors. Also, following many prior years of esteemed service to our organization.

Welcome, and thank you for speaking with me today, Sherif. This is the first podcast of 樱桃导航 Pulse. We are honored to be doing this today.

[01:17] Sherif Kamel: Eileen, thank you so much. Great to be here. Delighted to be part of the podcast and delighted to be part of 樱桃导航.

[01:26] Eileen: Marvelous. Okay, let's jump into one of our three big questions. So, as we know, it's an increasingly interconnected world, but with recent geopolitical events, from global conflicts to shifting international alliances, this has created huge uncertainty. So these disruptions, they have ripple effects across industries, economies, and educational institutions, particularly, and business schools, inevitably.

So with that in mind, how have these geopolitical shifts impacted the strategic priorities of business schools? And in particular, how can schools better prepare for future leaders to navigate such rapidly evolving and complex global landscapes?

It's something else at this moment in time, really, Sherif, isn't it?

[02:16] Sherif: Absolutely. And thank you for bringing up a very important question that is being discussed in every single business school around the world. Business schools are key stakeholders in every society. They don't confine their activities to the campuses. They interact with different stakeholders, startups, companies, NGOs, governments. At the end of the day, they produce the next generation of leaders. They need to interact all the time, not just to get informed of what's happening, but also to inform the programs and the offerings so they are relevant and timely.

So today, teaching strategy, marketing, finance, accounting—it is extremely important. But the implications on the society, the implications of the geopolitics, whatever that is happening around the world, how can this impact their decision-making process? What is happening to the industry? What is happening in the global trade wars?

[03:18] Sherif: What is happening in the geopolitics and the dynamics in different parts of the world? Every part of the world gets affected when something happens miles and miles away. It's extremely important to have an understanding of the global developments with a very sharp eye on the local context. This balance, if business schools come closer to realize, they will prepare more ready, well-rounded future leaders.

[03:50] Eileen: Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, it's so easy for a business school to just look through the lens of one of its traditional disciplines, for example, accounting, without setting that discipline in the context of the current instability across the globe.

I mean, you've talked a little bit around, you know, the global stuff, but could you just come back down to your own region now? Here in the Middle East and North African business schools, can you share some your thoughts around the roles that they are playing amid regional instability?

[04:27] Sherif: Absolutely. So the region as part of the world has its own issues, has its own challenges. But I also like to think that with challenges, we need to think outside the box. We need to really think differently at a time and age where technology is playing a major role. And what are the creative and innovative paths that we can follow to try to transform those challenges into opportunities?

You look at the region that has its own share of challenges but also has a massive young population. You're talking about 400 million people-plus, where 65 percent are under the age of 30. Most of them, if not all of them, are not just digital natives but are connected to the opportunities that are created through technology and not just AI.

It's extremely important to have an understanding of the global developments with a very sharp eye on the local context.

[05:17] Sherif: The technology that spreads in the way we think, the way we shop, the way we study, the way we work, and so on and so forth. How are we doing as business schools to bridge that gap?

[05:29] Eileen: Yeah, so just on that note, I know here at AUC you do tremendous work in the communities and particularly with your business relationships. Do you have any examples from AUC around how you are supporting our communities and your students, particularly here at AUC amid this regional instability?

[05:53] Sherif: I'll pick one example, a journey that started back in 2010 and it reflects one of themes of the school, which is entrepreneurship and innovation, including family business. If you look at the Egyptian economy, it's primarily based on even micro and small- and medium-sized enterprises. So with the sort of acceleration of technology right, left, and center, we thought of an opportunity there. And I have to admit, if I go back to 2010 or 2009, we hardly covered entrepreneurship. And I always keep saying the same thing. It was covered by one chapter in one book in one course. If you don't attend that course, you never heard about it, which is wrong. I mean, we've been around for 78 years. We should have done a better job earlier, but it's never too late.

[06:44] Sherif: So we started off a journey in 2008—I'm sorry, 2010—by putting together something we called EIP, the Entrepreneurship Innovation Program. The objective was to try to spread the entrepreneurial thinking not just among our students or the students of the university, but in Egypt. So we position ourselves as the educational partner to the entrepreneurial ecosystem.

Long story short, 15 years later, we started off with that program, which turned later on to become a center. We started our incubator, we started a minor, which now is a degree. And today, if you look at the impact in that area with the tech-enabled startups, it's not just confined to the students in our undergraduate and graduate programs, but it's a community effort at large. We're part of a big ecosystem; we cannot do it ourselves. But it was all about collaboration with businesses, with industry.

[07:48] Sherif: By the way, if we started in 2010, many of our today coaches and mentors are some of those who went through the system. So you build the community around the subject and then you scale it up.

[07:58] Eileen: Yeah, and I mean, you kind of draw on a really interesting connection there around students as learners. And so I'm guessing some of the students that went through that process in the early days are now coming back and, you know, mentoring younger students coming through the same process.

So with students in mind and at the heart of AUC, how do you help students prepare to lead with integrity? We're at flux with misinformation, let's face it. You know, some of the technological advancements have really allowed that to kind of drive into student environs. But the misinformation and the polarization and the competing ideologies are really quite difficult for not just young learners but for any learners, any students to navigate.

[08:48] Eileen: How do you support them here at AUC to be ethical leaders and make good choices that support them, and they'll be proud of as they go through when they're older and looking back?

[08:57] Sherif: I love it when you put it as learners, not students. Because today, I mean, we keep learning all the time, regardless of how much experience you have, because the more you know, the more you realize how much you don't know. And on that point, are degrees important today? Academic degrees? Absolutely, yes. Are they enough? I don't think so. Of course, we always get limitations from the credit hours and the number of credit hours, which courses to add, which courses to remove. So we introduced a few years ago development workshops for students. So this workshop students must attend before they graduate. They don't take credit for it, but they must attend it.

[09:46] Sherif: It’s 62 hours of workshops with a few faculty members, but mainly industry, business sort of expertise and professions from the market where they talk about issues like attitude, like culture, like inclusivity, like communication, like ethics; like we live in a world of social media. What is right, what is fake, what is wrong, what is misleading? How can we prepare ourselves to try as much as possible to make a distinction between these variations of information? In the good old days, we were pulling information from everywhere. Now information is being pushed at us, right, left, and center.

Disruption is probably the only constant thing, and we cannot rule out the changes that will keep happening and transforming society and the implications on business schools, which consequently should have implications on what we offer.

[10:31] Eileen: Absolutely.

[10:31] Sherif: I think those workshops were very useful to our students. We tested it through pilot projects with some students. Now it's scaled, it's rolled out to everybody so you can attend the courses, finish your degree, but then you won't graduate until you attend those. And there are certain assignments and certain examples and projects that they go through to try to prepare you better than others, hopefully to the market.

[11:02] Eileen: The exemplar that you've just shared is absolutely an exemplar of good practice around human-centered skills. And this is a theme that's been highlighted in the 樱桃导航 State of Business Education Report 2025 that really does highlight the fact that learners need human-centered skills. But what's interesting about your approach is it's embedded throughout the curriculum, throughout the whole student journey. So you get the maturity as they progress through their program.

Looking to the future and looking to these incredible opportunities that our future leaders, our graduates coming out of our schools, will have, how do you think we could develop them better to think strategically about long term geopolitical risks and opportunities?

[11:47] Sherif: We live in an uncertain world. Disruption is probably the only constant thing, and we cannot rule out the changes that will keep happening and transforming society and the implications on business schools, which consequently should have implications on what we offer.

For me, the most important asset in society is people. So my background is technology, and people think that infrastructure should come at the forefront of any system. Completely disagree. I see the environment we live today as composed of four elements that can help us navigate the changes, the global changes, including geopolitics, that are happening around the world. So first and foremost in the technology infrastructure comes people, the talent. Are they ready? Are they being exposed to the knowledge they need to be exposed to?

[12:49] Sherif: And then second, which is I think the tool that each and every one of us needs 24/7 to decide, which is data. Is the data available? Is it relevant, is it timely, is it accurate?

And then the third comes the framework, the policies, the procedures, the governance models, the checks and balances.

Finally comes the infrastructure, the technology part. Many people think the other way around. Technology should not be at the forefront; otherwise we get lost. Unless I'm exposing the students to those developments. And then they have access to the data, to the case studies, to the internships, to the core programs, to the lectures. More so from industry and business rather than the hardcore academic discipline. It's the application on the industry that counts, and then finally the infrastructure.

[13:47] Sherif: And we live in a time where we're using the gadgets of phones and iPads and tablets and notebooks 24/7. That's a means to an end, not the end by itself. I think by doing that, we're better preparing future leaders.

[14:01] Eileen: Yeah, that's wonderful. Let's move on to the second of our three big questions about leading through collaboration and continuous innovation. So what role does collaboration play in fostering a culture of continuous innovation in business schools today? And how is 樱桃导航 supporting such collaborations?

[14:23] Sherif: Without collaboration, we cannot go far. And we are blessed to live at a time and age where technology helps foster such collaboration. The reach, the power, the speed is unbelievable. I mean, if I go back when I started working close to 40 years ago, we hardly used computers, and they were not connected. And there was obviously no internet, no mobility. This was a completely different world.

Now we're blessed with such sort of infrastructure that how to use it to try to always think differently. We all work in business schools. We know business schools are not quick. The key to offer a value proposition to our students and learners to make a difference is to act as intellectual enterprises. And this is how I always see it. Deans and leaders of business schools should act as CEOs of intellectual enterprises.

[15:28] Sherif: They're still in the academic sphere. They're still in the knowledge space. But how close do they get to industry and business? And not just use the rhetoric of bridging the gap and building bridges with industry. This should manifest itself way more than just writing a case or having a project or inviting guest lectures. It's embedding industry and business, bringing it into the classroom.

We at the school, for example—I know many of my colleagues around the world do that—we have on a semester basis been like 15 years employer meeting where we bring in 20 people with students, I mean 20 people from corporates with students, with faculty, to get their feedback to loop those feedback into how we restructure our programs and offerings.

Deans and leaders of business schools should act as CEOs of intellectual enterprises.

[16:22] Sherif: So 樱桃导航 and its support to such ecosystem are consistently offering opportunities to bringing people from industry with people from academia to share the developments that are taking place to inform the business school. Not just through the major conferences that 樱桃导航 organizes every year, but also through the multiple webinars and workshops and seminars that are being organized that are also enabled through the creativity of what the technology offers.

[16:55] Eileen: Yeah, that's, I mean, you make some good points there, but I want to talk, I mean, we're kind of moving into probably my favorite territory at the moment, which is impact, right? Be it research impact or any other kind of impact that emanates from a business school in terms of innovative ways that business schools can partner with organizations to create meaningful impact. Have you got some really good examples that you can share with us around how AUC students and faculty foster meaningful impact in business and society?

[17:28] Sherif: There are a few examples I can think of. I will pick one example that we started 11 years ago. In 2014, part of the SDGs’ target is to have 30 percent of women on corporate boards. And one of my colleagues took the lead back then. In 2014, we started understanding the ecosystem, who's there, what we can do as a business school. How can we rally organizations around us, the policymakers having the space to really put this at the forefront of our interest as a business school because we saw that this will impact our positioning, but also what we offer because part and parcel of our themes, one of the three is responsible business. And we see that as very much part of responsible business and part of being inclusive. So we started off in 2014.

[18:21] Sherif: In 2017, we built a consortium, which we called Women on Boards. So again, long story short, from 2017 till today, we rallied endless numbers of organizations around us. The impact came when we saw the figures across all listed companies, the percentages, where it was in 2017. We published our first annual report in 2018, just this past week, we published the seventh annual report and you can see a surge. We are on course to realize the 30 percent probably ahead of 2030, which was the target. Probably we're going to hit it by 2028.

So we see that as core to what we need to be offering to the market because it's not just the project and Women on Boards; it's this message that we're sending across the board of what role should business schools do?

Sherif Kamel (left) talks with Eileen McAuliffe (right) at the American University in Cairo's Onsi Sawiris School of Business.

[19:17] Eileen: I couldn't agree more with you. And what I really like about the example you've just shared is, I know your academics, your professors will have published on this area, that they'll have gone into the top journals and they will be contributing to that body of knowledge that we, you know, that takes hundreds of years to build up.

But alongside that, you've taken these really phenomenal women and females and moved them into positions that maybe there have been barriers in the past—and the academicians will be telling us what the barriers are—but you're putting it into practice and you're breaking down the barriers. And what's really excellent is you're evaluating it and sharing that evidence so you can see the performance from the initial time when you started the project to now.

[20:05] Eileen: It's a lesson to everyone that talks a lot about impact, but we don't see much impact. The gap between academic research in its own value, but actually seeing it manifest in real life value is tremendous. So great example.

This is an interesting one around cross-disciplinary collaboration. And I can talk about, we can all talk about curriculum, research, or pedagogy, but what it brings is that spark, that creative kind of opportunity to build in real-world problems.

Have you got any thoughts around how business schools can better do this? You know, take more advantage of our colleagues in other disciplines and work more closely with them?

[20:56] Sherif: Interdisciplinary research, I think, is again one of the subjects that everybody talks about. It's extremely important. It offers great value for the market, for what students learn, for what faculty are engaged in in terms of research endeavors. But I still think we are far behind collectively as opposed to where we should be.

In 2022, we started , which was in many ways echoing what business schools in Europe did before, which is Europe. The intention was to bring in business schools from across the continent and faculty from different fields to work together under the umbrella of one topic, and that is climate leadership.

We started off with six schools in November 2022. Today, May 2025, we've launched several research projects, we've started a webinar series, we're collaborating with PRME Africa.

Accountants or marketeers or financiers can be great in their profession, but what we're seeking from them is to be great in the context of these world problems that we have.

[22:10] Sherif: Some of the content that was exchanged between those different schools are now embedded in several courses across the different six schools. Am I saying that this is enough? Absolutely not, which, we’re hardly scratching the surface, but it's a start. And we're trying to invite other business schools to join in, but also to scale that percentage of content in the courses so that students and learners sitting in those classrooms need to understand more what is happening in the planet. I mean this is the future, and it surely has implications on the jobs that will be out there, the opportunities that will be created, but also, what are we doing with the environment?

[22:58] Sherif: I mean, being in Egypt, being in Africa, probably Africa is one of the least continents that contributed to the climate crisis, yet it is one of the most continents that's suffering from its consequences. So the next generation of current and future generations of learners need to understand more to be able to take better decisions in the future.

[23:21] Eileen: Yeah, and I think it's really important, the point you raised there with that example is that, accountants or marketeers or financiers can be great in their profession, but what we're seeking from them is to be great in the context of these world problems that we have. You know, show us your sustainable finance skills or your finance skills for climate change and, you know, let's look at different kind of agendas around being a great accountant or marketeer in that context. And I think this generation and the next generation coming afterwards will need to appreciate what those world challenges are and be able to use their professional skills to fix them, to help us with that.

[24:01] Sherif: I can add one thing, which can help in interdisciplinary research. I have also to say, universities and business schools, to work together, needs a good partnership, spirit of collaboration. Sometimes interdisciplinary collaboration within business schools is difficult. So just imagine if these are different business schools in different countries, in different regions. But there's no impossible. There's always a way to find interesting elements that can bring faculty together—and it has to be faculty led.

On this point, I think the future should be about the framework. And that framework will build on how we've been doing research for years. So we've been doing, like you said, research for years based on disciplines: strategy, finance, accounting, HR, marketing.

[24:57] Sherif: And then we started looking at those as verticals. And then we started looking horizontally on the impact on sustainability, on climate, the impact of AI, the impact of data analytics. It's the intersection between those verticals and horizontals—on the society, on the economy, on industry, on agriculture, on services—I think this is where programs and offerings should be going. And that will, I think, will provide a more rounded learner who is open to different options to critically think about issues and try to come up with solutions.

[25:35] Eileen: Now we're moving into the third of our three big questions, and this is home ground for you. And I know you and I have spent many times talking about this topic.

So how effectively are business schools, do you think today, at leveraging emerging technologies, from analytics to AI to immersive learning? Where do you think business schools have the opportunities to make the most impact in this, in leading in the digital technological kind of revolution, if you like?

[26:04] Sherif: One word: massive. The impact is massive. It has been in the making for 82 years. Eighty-two years in different shapes and forms and ways. Obviously, the very early versions were basic. But it was in the making for 82 years.

Well, now it's a new phase since November 2022, and it's still scratching the surface. Every month there is something new. How can we respond to that? Of course there was a panic at the beginning. Come up with the statements, the do's and don'ts, or with the 200-pages manual, or students should do that, faculty should not do that. I think we're all learning.

The one thing we should keep in mind, in my view, AI for me is augmented intelligence. There is nothing artificial about it.

[26:59] Eileen: So this view that if we go back to kind of November 22nd, there was almost an apology if somebody said, “I've been on an AI tool, and I've done this with it.” It was almost apologetic, wasn't it? But I think you were one of the most positive proponents of the use of AI in business education. And you saw very quickly how it could be immersed in the classroom, in research, in all kinds of areas in our pedagogy, to good effect, to do good with it.

[27:30] Sherif: It's a very promising tool that needs its checks and balances, that needs the policies, the procedures to use it right, ethically. We need to be principled about it. But boy, the openings in learning, in research, in operating the school, in student enrollment, in taking decisions—it gives us more options. It saves us time.

But I’m still determined to say that the talent, the HI, the human intelligence remains the key part on how to use those, how to be sort of spot on in identifying the right tools to reach the outcome that we're looking for. And that's a completely different story because we already see so many tools out there. What is the one that best fits what we need, is key. But who needs to be prepared? It's not just the students.

I personally think that we will become more of instigators of conversations, facilitators, moderators, orchestrators—provocateurs.

[28:36] Sherif: It's the students, it's the faculty, it's the staff, it's the leadership that takes decisions, what to invest in what technology.

[28:46] Eileen: Yeah, I mean, you touched on it a little bit there. I just want to dive a bit deeper into it because as you've said, there's so many opportunities for the integration into business and management education. How can we embrace and maximize the benefits of technological transformation and at the same time keep the human-centered skills that we talked about—you touched on it a little bit there, you said human intelligence and so on—so that it means that it's a meaningful educational experience, but also that we still have those rounded leaders coming out when they graduate? And they’re not, and that they can see the benefits of the digital technology they've been using, but they're still humans with it, I suppose, and have the skills.

[29:30] Sherif: This will take me to a point that relates to what you're talking about, which is, how would the next-gen business school look like? Is it the same? We as professors stepping into the classroom, lecturing for an hour or two? I don't think so. The setup in the classroom, the way classrooms are run, using technology, embedding technology, but also the expectations of the learners, the value proposition we as faculty would bring into the classroom has to change.

I personally think that we will become more of instigators of conversations, facilitators, moderators, orchestrators—provocateurs. Exactly. And we get the best out of the students based on a theory that we're discussing or a case that we're discussing. But the flow of one chapter after the other, one too many lecturing, I think gradually is going to go away.

[30:31] Sherif: We miss it, maybe, but that's the nature of the beast. I mean, technology is now playing at center stage. We still have the upper hand. And I still think that the importance of the human-led sort of ecosystem in that case is,the professor will remain extremely important. But the nature of that intervention will definitely change in the years to come.

[30:57] Eileen: So that's interesting. So the connector, I think, there, is between the technology and the human-centered skills is the professor or the academic. That's the person who's the glue between all of it to make sure that it all moves along together. I think that's really interesting.

So just following on from this, and I know you've got lots of examples, but how is AUC innovating digitally? I mean, you might have some infrastructure constraints or regional constraints in some areas, but how have you seen some of these innovations inform best practices here?

[31:34] Sherif: So at the school we are way ahead when it comes to hybrid teaching and offerings in executive education, then degree programs. We've had, for years, collaboration with a number of universities around the world where there are joint projects between our students and their students. But today we gradually are embedding some of our classes to be online. But if I judge where we are today from 10 years ago, I would see the impact in executive education has been massive. And that opened up opportunities for us across Africa and across the Middle East.

We're still not really at the same level when it comes to degree programs. We're still more or less classical and traditional in the way students come to the campus and attend classes. Some of the sessions are done online, but not a big deal.

[32:35] Eileen: In terms of the next frontier—you alluded to it a little bit earlier, where you said operating models might have to shift and the way resources are deployed by, you know, executive teams and so on—but what do you see as the next frontier of digital transformation for business schools?

[32:52] Sherif: We talk all the time about the future of work. We need to talk about the future of learning. Right. We also talk about the open working space and coworking space. How about open learning space? And I think that's the future.

So today you'll find the bulk of the learning space is in the classroom. I think that will change. So part of it will be in the classroom, part of it will be in the campus. Part of it will be—a big part of it will be outside campus, in factories, in NGOs, maybe in the streets, getting exposed to observations and feeding back to the conversation in the classrooms. Much of it will—already, much of it is done through different platforms and applications that we're using. I still think we're learning, trying to figure out, what are the percentages?

[33:43] Sherif: But is it about percentages, or is it about the value that are brought into the experience of the learners? I think that's what counts. And we're still trying to figure out which paths we should follow. But should we sit there and rule out the use of technology? Absolutely not. Should we sit there and continue doing the classrooms, one class, one course after the other? I don't think this is where the world is going.

I think everybody, every single member of 樱桃导航, brings to the table something new. Because we live in different contexts, we face different challenges, yet we have so many similarities.

[34:12] Eileen: I'm absolutely agreeing with everything you're saying, but I'm really interested in not just the technological transformation and how that affects the way we teach and learn and research in business schools, but the whole ethical journey that sits alongside this as we move forward with rapidly developing technology. Is our governance moving at the same rate? And are our ethical contributions still there as well? So there's a lot to think about here.

Now, I've got one killer question left for you. So, as our audience will know, your chairmanship of 樱桃导航 has been phenomenal, and it's been an absolute delight and pleasure to have you chairing the board for this last 12 months. What further potential do you think 樱桃导航 has to bring together different stakeholders to create an ecosystem of innovative problem-solving in the business school world?

[35:05] Sherif: I would start by saying there is no limit to the potential. I've been honored to be serving in many different capacities over the last exactly 24 years with 樱桃导航. Needless to say, I was honored to be part of the board and then chairing the board, and this is a very powerful community. It's a global community, a community that is led by volunteers. What they do is that they share their experiences, successes or failures, with others, so everybody learns from each other. The space to create different programs, different offerings, learn from each other, being more innovative. It's just, as I said, limitless. And I think everybody, every single member of 樱桃导航, brings to the table something new. Because we live in different contexts, we face different challenges, yet we have so many similarities.

[36:05] Sherif: And at the end of the day, we're trying to prep generations of leaders who would go out there and impact principally their societies. And societies are all interconnected, so they all affect each other. So, yeah, the potential is huge. And circling back to the digital transformation, that actually scales up the potential opportunities.

[36:34] Eileen: 樱桃导航 is global, and its global reach is phenomenal. But one thing it does do very well is support its members. We stand together. And that, for me, is the secret superpower that 樱桃导航 has. And I think you've explained it so clearly there. Thank you.

Sherif ,I mean, we've presented lots of different things, we've been on lots of different panels together, but this has been an absolute pleasure and an honor for me, personally. And I know you have a very busy day, but the way you share your insights and you bring everything to life with real examples and the passion that you exhibit from your school is really a joy to behold. Thank you so much.

[37:12] Eileen: And I just want to take the opportunity to thank, as well, all the staff at the Onsi Sawiris School of Business at AUC for helping to facilitate this, our inaugural episode of 樱桃导航 Pulse. So if you've enjoyed this conversation, be sure to follow on Apple or Spotify. We've got more great episodes coming up on the biggest issues shaping global business education today. Thank you.

[37:36] Sherif: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me, and all the very best for Pulse. Thank you.

About 樱桃导航 Pulse

A podcast produced by 樱桃导航 International, 樱桃导航 Pulse explores current topics impacting global business education—three questions at a time—with business school deans, industry leaders, and other big thinkers of today.

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樱桃导航 Pulse: 3 big questions. Bold answers. Better business schools.